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general stamp collecting discussions
#1202 by Audrius
Sat Apr 30, 2016 6:50 pm
An imperforate pair (Mi 245) recently sold on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/172170562815

New evidence found that imperforate sheet(s) of the 60 ct stamp may have been inadvertently issued.
See article by Dr. Bubnys: http://lithuanianphilately.com/stamp-co ... mail-60ct/
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#1203 by Scipionus
Sun May 01, 2016 11:26 am
I can add an other example.

Does anybody think it is another pair, horizontally imperforated and cutted off? :)
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#1204 by vitg
Sun May 01, 2016 11:56 am
Very interesting question, Vygintas.
As much as I would love to see such a wonderful and important new discovery made, it would have to have some indisputable evidence to support it. The black and white copy of the 1986 catalog offering is indeed intriguing, but not a definitive proof of the imperforate sheet by any means, since well made forgeries and reprints of this issue exist.
An argument against an imperforate sheet (although quite weak) is that of 220 stamps in the sheet, we would've seen more in existence and known by collectors at this point.
If you look closely at your pair - the center seems to be shifted slightly to the left. However, examination of the black and white picture of the imperforate block of 6 suggests that the center is shifted slightly to the right. Existence of 2 imperforate sheets is extremely unlikely.
#1205 by Audrius
Mon May 02, 2016 8:35 am
vitg wrote:not a definitive proof of the imperforate sheet by any means, since well made forgeries and reprints of this issue exist.


Vitaly,

Can you upload few examples of such forgeries and reprints for everyone to see?
#1206 by Vygis
Mon May 02, 2016 12:31 pm
Thanks for comments.
Imperforated part of the sheet (6 stamps) was sold from the Th. Poulie v.h. Noordende collection, awarded many times by gold medals in international philatelic exhibitions since 1958 and I do not think he had a lack of experience to hold a fakes. From other hand most of the fakes we see in our days are made in last 3 decades, except Vilnius I issue, Raseiniai, F.Vaitkus overprint, plus few - known for many years.
Your arguments, Vitaly, on the little shift of the center on the imperforated pair I do not buy, because in some full sheets you can see how differ position of center on the stamps in the left top lines of the sheet compare with the stamps from bottom wright lines.
I agree with everyones skepticism evaluating the pair of stamps as imperforated, yes I will have my doubts always.
#1207 by vitg
Mon May 02, 2016 10:11 pm
Per your request, Audrius:
In addition to the "Double Center" forgery with significant shift of the centers as featured in Vygintas' post, here is a similar "Double Center" fake with lesser shift between the two centers and comments of the late Dr. Klein regarding two different printing dyes used for the two centers. As well as an additional scan of a "Double Center" Forgery with one of the centers inverted.

As any philatelic examiner and expert will tell, a stamp can not be authenticated by looking at it's picture. It has to be examined in detail, has to be held in hands, looked under microscope, UV light, etc... I have seen a great example of the famous Soviet "Лимонка" stamp where the stamp design was cut out of the cheap variety stamp and inserted into the outer field with correct perforation. Splicing of the paper could be detected only under very high magnification. And that was a very old forgery too.

Having said all that, I can not deny that Vygintas' find of the picture with the large imperforated multiple is quite intriguing! As we all see time and time again - Lithuanian philately never stops surprising us with new wonderful discoveries made almost every year!
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#1208 by Audrius
Tue May 03, 2016 9:04 am
Vitaly,

Thanks for posting fine example of another double-center fake and adding interesting comments about fabrication of the "limonka" fakes. I was hoping that you have some examples (or references) of reprinted large blocks or even singles with fake frames that would suggest a possible connection to the block of six auctioned in 1986.

Dr. Doniela came forward and mentioned that he attempted to buy this block in the auction but was unsuccessful. It does not prove anything only supports the above comments that auctioning off the Poulies' collection was a significant event.

Look forward to finding more information about the imperforate block.